Michael: Hello and welcome to Postgres
FM, a weekly show about

all things PostgreSQL.

I am Michael, founder of pgMustard.

And this week with Nikolay taking
a well-earned week off, I am

super grateful to be joined by
Claire Giordano, the head of Postgres

open source community initiatives
at Microsoft and host of a

fellow Postgres podcast.

Welcome to the show, Claire.

Claire: Thank you so much.

It's exciting to be here, Michael.

I'm a big fan of your show and
danced a jig when you invited

me on.

Michael: Oh, well, likewise.

You know, I've listened to every
episode of Claire's podcast

and was also delighted to be on
it recently.

So thank you for joining me.

And you recently published a fantastic
recap of a lot of Postgres

initiatives going on at Microsoft,
obviously, but also have spoken

at lots of people will know you
from the podcast, but also from

the conferences that you speak
at, that you organize, and all

sorts of ways that you contribute
to the Postgres community yourself.

Do you want to give us a little
bit of background on how you

got involved in this and also why
you do it?

Why it's important to you?

Claire: Well, let's see.

I first got involved in Postgres
back in 2017.

And that's when I joined a small
San Francisco startup called

Citus Data.

I've worked in engineering, I've
worked in product management,

I've worked in product marketing,
and it was wearing the product

marketing hat that I joined Citus and
obviously, Citus is an open

source extension to Postgres.

And so that's what brought me into
the Postgres community.

And people who were there will
tell you that I kind of said no

a couple of times first.

I didn't think of myself as a database
person.

And so I just wasn't sure if it
was the right fit.

I'd worked in operating systems,
I'd worked in scale-out storage,

I'd worked in developer tools,
but was Postgres, were databases

the next place for me?

And so I had some hesitations at
the beginning, and I'm so glad

that other folks persisted in nudging
me to talk to the team

at Citus because I love my job
and I love working with the Postgres

community.

So yeah, from my work at Citus,
that's obviously the connection.

And then I first started meeting
people in the community about

a year and a half later, I gave
a talk at my first Postgres conference,

which was PGConf EU in Lisbon.

And that talk was like, why Postgres?

Why this database?

Why now?

Where I was sharing all of my observations
about, you know, the

popularity and where it was coming
from and everything I'd learned

in my first year and a half.

Michael: Nice.

So you've done talks in the past
about all the ways you can contribute

to the community, you call it.

I think we probably roughly agree
on what the community even

is, but for anybody out there trying
to think, what does this

include?

What would you say to them?

Claire: Well, so I think one of the
talks you're talking about

was called Fibonacci Spirals and
21 Ways to Contribute to Postgres

beyond code.

And that is a talk that I probably
first gave at PGConfU, but

also gave at Fosdem, and at CitusCon,
and different variations.

And it was interesting to create
because obviously Postgres is

an open source project.

It's a global project.

People from all around the world
contribute to it.

But a friend of mine, who doesn't
work on Postgres at all, was

recently started working on an
open source project.

And he told me just the other day,
he's like, you know, I thought

when we first started talking about
open sourcing my project,

that it was literally just about
releasing the code on GitHub.

I didn't realize how much more
there is to an open source project.

I can't mention the name because
this project is not yet open

sourced.

But the talk that I gave covered
all sorts of ground, like not

just documentation or translations
of error messages, which,

you know, are obviously closer
to the code, but also things that

you can do just with blogging and
sharing your expertise or giving

talks at meetups and again, sharing
your learnings with the local

community.

Posting your slides online after
you've given a talk so that

other people who were not there
have at least access to the slides.

What else?

Reporting bugs, that's important.

And the different way you need
to report security bugs, you know,

that's important.

Some people have written books
and that's not for all of us.

Obviously, that's a lot of work.

But like Dimitri Fontaine's book,
The Art of Postgres is so

popular.

Markus Winand's books are so popular.

So in my talk, I have screenshots
of some of their books as well.

Is that what you were thinking
of?

Michael: Yeah, I actually watched
it earlier today, re-watched

it, the CitusCon version, and a
couple of the ones that I noted

down as I don't always think of
those are, for example, shining

a light on others work in the community.

I thought that was such a good
reminder that part of, like It

is difficult when you're in open
source to keep telling people

what you're working on.

And people can get tired of always
hearing about your work from

yourself.

But if you spot someone else doing
great work, sharing that and

champing that, you can say nicer
things about it than they can

say about themselves.

So that was a thought of really
good point like that, that I

don't think of doing as much as
I should.

And the other 1 was like organizing
meetups or offering a space

for a meetup to be in, like there's
so many small things that

are difficult, But it's not that
difficult to organize a small

meetup.
You don't have to do a talk.

You could, like meetups I've been
to, some of them are just gathered

around a table or just a drink
or something like that.

It doesn't have to be serious.

So there are lots of these small
ways that are really important,

but they're also quite difficult
for a lot of the people that

are deep on the technical side
of things to always contribute

to.

But having said all that, you're
not just doing that, like that,

those contributions are all very
important, but there are lots

of code contributions as well,
Lots of extremely valuable things

on that side.

So yeah, I think you only covered
the non-code ones in that talk.

So I'll link up that talk.

Claire: I also want to give a shout
out to Josh Berkus.

When I first started working on
the ways to contribute to Postgres

beyond code talk, I was partway
through.

I think my talk had been accepted
by this point, or maybe I was

still working on the proposal.

And I thought, you know, what if
somebody's already given this

talk?

What if I think it's my idea, but
it's not really my idea?

So, you know, after just a few
Google searches, I discovered

that he had written a talk almost
10 years before the alternative

title for it, which is the 1 that
I always remember with 50 ways

to love your project.

And he had this beautiful pie chart
in it where he showed that,

you know, the code contribution
is hugely important.

It's what everybody thinks of,
but it's like the slice of pie.

And all the rest of it is the non-code
contributions that are

really important part of a healthy
open source project.

Because it takes all aspects.

People need to be able to learn
the technology, people need tutorials,

and of course, people learn differently.

Some people learn by podcasts,
for example, which is why you

do what you do.

Michael: Yeah, absolutely.

I personally love listening to
podcasts.

I find that I learn a lot through
them but it also helps me connect

dots that I hadn't connected previously.

Sometimes you read something and
it hasn't completely sunk in

until you hear someone describe
it or you see it in action.

And having those multiple touch
points really helped me personally

learn.

So I'm curious on the motivations
behind that talk as well, though.

Do you see a lot of people that
want to contribute more to Postgres

but are struggling for ideas on
how to do so?

Or do you see it more as trying
to sell the benefits of doing

so.

Claire: I think it was probably
twofold.

I think 1 of the things that I'm
always thinking about is how

do I help grow the Postgres community?

And the talk I gave last year at
PG Coffee U and subsequently

I also presented at Nordic was
a beginner's guide to partitioning

and sharding in Postgres.

And it specifically was a beginner's
guide because that's what

I thought I could help the most
with is helping somebody who's

brand new, who's never used partitioning
or never used sharding

or wasn't even sure what the difference
was between the 2 of

them, that I could help them understand
those concepts.

Just because I think if we're going
to grow, that means we need

to help people who are new to the
technology and new to the space

learn.

And so in some sense, this different
ways to contribute to Postgres

talk was also motivated by this
desire to just help people who

were new realize that, okay, maybe
they're not a C programmer.

And so they're not going to be
contributing to Postgres core,

but there are ways they can actually
contribute to the project

that are just as valuable.

Actually coming soon is the pgconf.dev
event happening in Vancouver,

Canada.

It's kind of like a rebrand or
a next generation of what traditionally

was called PGCon.

It used to happen every year in
Ottawa, Canada.

And on the last day of PGCon, now
pgconf.dev, is an unconference.

And so I'm toying around with the
idea of proposing an unconference

session where we talk about like,
how can we recognize or better

recognize the different types of
contributions beyond code?

Like, right now, it's impossible
to track them.

So it's really about who you know
or who your friends are and

things like that.

But when you merge transactions and code
into GitHub or into the Postgres

source base you get this beautiful
coin when the release comes

out.

And engineers absolutely love it.

And I feel like, well, people contributing
in other ways would

probably also absolutely love it,
but we don't have a really

good way to track those contributions
right now.

So I don't know if it's a problem
that'll get solved any time

in the next year or 2, but I'm
hoping to facilitate a conversation

about it at pgconf.dev, which I'm
so excited to go there.

It'll be my first time at the old
event and the new event.

And so yeah, coming soon.

Michael: Wonderful.

Well, speaking of events, by the
time, so this will come out

probably around the time of that
Unconference, but shortly afterwards,

Pozet will be happening, which
is your, or Microsoft's online

conference, would you call it,
event?

How do you describe it?

Claire: I describe it as a free
and virtual developer event.

And it's in its third year.

It's called Pozat, an event for
Postgres, but it used to be called

CitusCon.

So if you're wondering, what's
the difference between CitusCon

and Pozat?

Well, the difference is the name.

We renamed it.

I'm not on the organizing team
this year, though.

Teresa Giacomini on my team is
chairing the organizing committee

on her own, and she's put together
a fabulous team.

And it's really exciting every
year, you know, the event gets

better.

And sure enough, this year, the
event is, is getting better.

My role was chairing the talk selection
team.

So that was pretty exciting.

There were a lot more submissions
than I expected, even when

we forecasted for growth.

And in fact, I published a blog
post that was all about the talk

selection team process and shared
some of the metrics and how

we went about making the decisions.

And I had, you know, there were
3 other amazing Postgres open

source people on the talk selection
team with me.

So I obviously did it as part of
a team.

But yeah, the speakers, the talks,
it should be pretty fun.

And it's 4 separate live streams,
June 11 through 13.

Michael: Yeah, I've watched a lot
of the talks in the past.

I love that they're all online.

You can watch it from anywhere.

No travel involved.

It's extremely accessible globally.

Pretty much, I think, wherever
you live in the world, you'll

be able to watch some of the talks
live, which is amazing.

I don't know of an event like it
from that perspective.

So I'd be keen to hear a bit more
about how you came up with

it, what your goals are with it,
why it needs to exist, that

kind of thing.

Claire: Let's see, it's in its
third year, which means that Citus

Con, an event for Postgres, was
conceived kind of near the tail

end of COVID, when a lot of things
were happening virtually.

Right?

Michael: Makes sense.

Claire: And I love in-person events.

I mean, it's how you and I first
met in person, right?

At PG Day in Paris.

You make friends, you build relationships,
you get that face-to-face

hallway track experience at in-person
events, which is pretty

wonderful.

But at the same time, people have
young kids, elderly parents,

things they have to be doing in
their community.

Maybe they don't have budget to
travel to another location, paper,

hotels, food, planes, et cetera.

So there is, I think accessibility
is like key.

These virtual talks are accessible
to people, anybody with an

internet connection, right?

And we're hoping people come and
attend the live streams because

then you can like be on the live
text chat with the speaker while

their talk is being presented this
year, which I think is kind

of cool because all the talks are
pre-recorded.

But we also know that a lot of
people are going to watch these

talks online on YouTube on their
own schedule, right, at their

leisure, and that's fine too, right?

So I think Microsoft as a rule
is very big into accessibility.

Like we also put a lot of thought
into the captions of these

videos and making sure that Postgres
is actually spelled like

Postgres.

You know, we wanna make it easy
for people to consume this.

Michael: Nice.

Obviously during COVID, we had
a lot of online events and that

was wonderful.

And it makes sense that most of
them have gone back to in-person,

but it has left us with not as
many online events as would be

nice.

So thanks for you and your team
for continuing to run that.

While we're on names and spelling
things correctly and all sorts

of things like that.

Whilst we did only meet in person
recently, I did come across

you a long time ago via your funny
videos on how to spell and

pronounce Postgres, but also the
name of the conference, I think,

was what you were joking about.

Do you Remember those videos?

Claire: I do.

I think if you go to my Twitter
feed, I still have pinned that

60-second video monologue that
was inspired by a comedian named

Alexis Gay, who I think does wonderful
monologues.

And yeah, I got to play around
with CitusCon, an event for Postgres,

all the ways people misspell and
misstate Citus, as well as all

the many different ways people
will pronounce Postgres.

So people got a kick out of it.

It had a ton of views.

It's probably the most popular
thing I've ever published in my

entire life.

And so that's why it's still pinned,
even though I'm a couple

years old now.

Actually, maybe you can help me.

I have promised Teresa to create
some kind of cool monologue

or trailer, something, some little
short YouTube short type thing

before Pozet happens.

And I'm trying to find the hook
with the story and the tell.

How can I possibly beat that, you
know, different ways to pronounce

Postgres video?

And I don't, I haven't figured
it out yet.

So I'm looking for inspiration,
if you have any ideas.

Michael: Well, your videos are
way funnier than anything I've

ever done in my life, so I don't
think I'm going to be able to

help you.

But 1 thing we haven't talked about
yet that maybe is an idea

is what POSET stands for, the letters,
and maybe you could have

some fun with what it doesn't stand
for.

Claire: It's interesting.

I'm going to segue to Taylor Swift
for just a second.

There have been all these videos
and reels lately exploring,

well, what's the process?

How do these songs get written?

And this is true for other musicians
as well.

They're starting to like let people
in to these kind of homemade

videos that show them during the
creative process.

I don't know how many people that
are listening know how naming

is done, but it's really kind of
interesting.

And I don't know how everybody
does it.

I've only done naming projects
at 3 different companies.

1 was when I was at Amazon, 1 when
I was at Sun Microsystems,

and now at Microsoft, So I will
not claim to be the world's expert,

but part of the deal is you have
to ideate a ton of options,

right?

A ton of options, like 150 different
possible new names.

And they kind of all fall in different
categories.

And sometimes you think of the
category And then you just riff,

riff, riff, riff, riff.

And you let yourself write down
bad ideas.

That's really important, is that
permission to come up with a

stupid idea.

Because it's only among a field
of stupid ideas that you can

find a brilliant 1.

So long story short, as we were
exploring the names, 1 of the

things that struck me is that,
huh, FOSDOM, a lot of people don't

really know what FOSDOM stands
for.

Like It was an acronym, but now
it's kind of a word.

It's kind of a name.

And you know it's free, open source,
developer, blah, blah, blah.

Like what do the rest of the letters
stand for?

So then I found out there was a
whole story there.

It was originally OSDEM without
the S.

And then I think Richard Stallman
insisted that the F be added.

Not 100% sure the details of that
story wasn't there at the time

but anyway so there was this whole
category of okay what if we

were to create a name that was
inspired by an acronym.

And that's exactly what Fossette
is.

So the inspiring acronym stands
for Postgres, open source, ecosystem,

talks, training, and education.

And separate from Postgres, I feel
like the most important word

in there is actually ecosystem.

So we absolutely were trying to
welcome and invite talks, not

just on the Postgres core, but
also on extensions, also on tooling

that make the Postgres technology
work.

Because there's this rich set of
tooling that exists in that

world.

I mean, do you consider PG Mustard
tooling or do you consider

it guidance?

Michael: Good question.

I consider it a tool.

Claire: Okay.

Michael: Yeah, But it's a great
point because one of the best things

about Postgres is how extensible
it is.

So making sure people feel included
there is a great, great idea.

Claire: But we don't ever expect
anybody to remember what Pozet

originally stood for or to ever
spell it out in long form.

It's not an acronym in that sense.

Michael: While we're on the ecosystem
and extensions, is this

a good time to segue into that
side of contributing to Postgres?

Claire: Are you hinting that I
should bring up Citus?

Is that what you're thinking?

Michael: Well, it's not just Citus.

I read your blog post and I knew
already that there were contributions

to even the likes of pgBouncer
and all sorts of extensions.

But yeah, Citus is, I think, the
one you're probably personally

best well known for, and it is
obviously a huge extension.

And yeah, well, maybe we could
start with Citus is now fully

open source, right?

That wasn't always true.

That's a, that's a heck of a contribution
in itself.

Do you see that like the open sourceness
of contributing to Postgres

as being really important.

Claire: So the fact that Citus
is open source was really big

news when we first made it fully
open source a couple of years

ago.

Now it was mostly open source prior
to that, but taking those

last few components and making
them fully open source, I think

was really important for our users
and for the community and

got a lot of positive feedback
from people.

I have asked the question of guests
on the podcast that I host,

as well as just friends within
the Postgres world.

And to a person, everybody says
that part of why they're so committed

to Postgres, part of why they chose
to run their business on

Postgres, part of why they were
first attracted to working on

this technology is because it's
open source.

When I did the Postgres Person
of the Week interview that Andrea

Sherban has been running for a
couple of years now, which is

pretty awesome, I think I gave
him a graphic that I called like

a virtuous circle or a flywheel,
right?

And the fact that Postgres is open
source, I think, and then

it's easy to get started and easy
to kick the tires, which means

developers start flocking to it.

And then developers, you know,
get all this positive feedback

from using it.

They contribute to the tooling,
which makes it even better to

use, which makes it even easier
to start with and like, it's

yes, I think the fact that it's
open source matters.

You mentioned pgBouncer a second
ago.

And yeah, Yelta Fenomenio on our
team is now one of the maintainers

for pgBouncer.

And it's been really exciting to
see his work and see some of

the improvements to pgBouncer
that have happened in recent releases

that I can see his fingerprint
on that work.

And so that is another aspect of
our contributions to the ecosystem

that got flagged in that big blog
post.

But the other thing in that big
blog post that I think is so

interesting that I put a lot of
thought into is there's a whole

section on the Postgres open source
contributor team at Microsoft.

And I mean, the part that a lot
of the technologists will be

most excited about are some of
the Postgres 17 features.

No, Quick Postgres 17 isn't GA
yet.

So I walked through some of the
features that my teammates told

me about that they had worked on
themselves, that they had authored

or co-authored.

But before that, I also went and
tried to articulate why does

a company like Microsoft pay these
open source committers to

work on Postgres open source nearly
full time, right?

What's the motivation?

What's the strategy?

And why are we going after these
big architectural changes like

asynchronous IO and direct IO?

And so If you're curious about
why, hopefully you'll link to

that part of the blog post in the
show notes.

Thomas Munro even gave me a really
nice quote to add to that

section that was like his personal
view, because he's one of the

authors of the streaming I-O work
that has come into Postgres

17 that is part of our async IO
path that people are pursuing.

Michael: It's so nice looking through
that list of contributors.

There's a list on the postgresql.org
site of all the core team

and the major contributors, contributors,
and at least for the

first couple of categories, they
include the company that people

work at.

And I don't think everybody realizes,
but the vast majority of

people working on Postgres are
employed by a company that's either

involved directly with Postgres
or uses Postgres, but increasingly

by major cloud providers, but also
a lot of the consulting companies.

So there's a, 1 of the things you
did mention in that post was

By employing people full-time,
you're able to work on these deep

architectural things.

People that contribute part-time,
it's harder to take on the

bigger task because they're just
going to take forever.

Claire: Well, even full-time, it's
multi-year, multi-release.

And obviously, anything that you,
like the streaming I-O

Work, for example, had to have
users, right?

Had to have user code that was
implemented to take advantage

of it you're not just gonna put
some new capability on the shelf

that isn't getting used and tested
and so yeah it's pretty it's

pretty exciting and then of course
Melanie Plagman who is now

a committer to new Postgres committers
added, which is pretty

exciting.

All this work is, any work that
gets done in Postgres is almost

by definition, multi-company and
global in nature.

Right?

So the reviewers, the authors,
the committers might all be from

different companies and collaborating
together.

So any of the work that I've flagged
where my teammates at Microsoft

were authors, they're probably
with somebody else involved from

some other company.

It is a global project.

And so shout out to all those folks
too.

It was really funny, cause I got
a note on Mastodon from Alvaro

Herrera, who was, did you see it?

He said, I can't help but feel
slighted on Yeltsin's behalf that

you didn't include the include
the lib PQ query cancellation,

but I have since rectified my mistake
and has been added to the

blog post.

Michael: Nice.

And if anybody doesn't know Alvaro
works for EDB.

So this is not a Microsoft person
chiming in.

Anyway, it is so great.

And I did actually look through
some of the commits.

I went down a bit of a rabbit hole
in research for this 1.

But yeah, reviewers from AWS, reviewers
from Neon, reviewers

from EDB.

Anyway, it's a great post.

I do recommend people checking
it out partly just to see how

things work, but also to learn.

I want to make sure we do talk
a bit more about your own podcast.

Claire: So it's a monthly podcast.

We record it live on Discord, which
is kind of a whole social

audio thing because then there's
a parallel live text chat that's

happening on Discord at the same
time that we're doing the actual

recording.

And it can be a lot of fun to participate
in.

And we typically explore what I
call the human side of Postgres.

So it's all about, you know, how
did you get your start?

What was your first job in Postgres?

What were the challenges you ran
across in doing that?

Or even sometimes, even earlier,
how did you get your start as

a developer?

And then in Postgres, which is
not to say we'll only ever talk

about that, but the backstories
that contributors have, they're

just fascinating to me and to a
lot of our listeners.

So The podcast is called Path to
Siduscon, but we're about to

rename it.

Its new name is going to be
Talking Postgres.

So we will be making that available.

We'll be redirecting all the old
episodes to the new name.

So it should be super easy.

If you've been subscribed to the
RSS feed, everything should

still work.

If it doesn't just reach out to
me on Twitter or Mastodon or

something, I'll work to get it
fixed.

But yeah, talking Postgres.

Michael: Yeah, and I can vouch
for this.

There's been about 15 episodes,
I believe, and I've listened

to every one.

They're about an hour long conversations
with 1 or 2 people about

all things Postgres, and it's really
great.

I've learned a lot from it as well.

I wish there were more Postgres
podcasts.

And actually, we chatted
for ages.

A lot was comparing notes on how
to run a podcast.

I like meeting other makers and
other people in the weeds of

things because you just get to
chat really nerdy but basic things.

So yeah, if anybody else out there
is considering doing this

kind of thing, feel free to hit
me up for comparing notes on

that kind of thing.

Claire: You've been very generous
with your tips and your suggestions.

I really appreciate it.

Michael: Well, likewise.

On that note, what contributions
do you think are most needed

at the moment in the community?

Or perhaps for folks out there
who want to contribute more to

Postgres or want their organization
to contribute more in some

way, any advice for them on how
to get started with this?

Claire: 2 ideas come to mind on
your first question.

And I think my brain started to
go down those paths.

But 1 idea is something that the
PGConf Dev team is already working

toward, which is they have a bunch
of workshops planned that

are intended to help new contributors
get feedback on their patches,

for example.

So there's an advanced patch feedback
session that's invite only.

So, and it's probably full by now,
but there's an intro to hacking

on Postgres, big, long session,
you know, more than just the

length of a talk, right?

There's another 1 that's called
a patch review workshop, again,

with special registration required.

And so I think as I talked to Melanie
Plankman about it, the,

the goal, the intention is to help
new contributors understand

how to get it done, how to make
it happen, what skills do they

need?

Because it's not just about the
quality of their work, but it's

about integrating into the processes
that exist and how to be

most effective within the Postgres
development processes.

So I think making it possible and
easier for more developers

to begin contributing to this very
complex database is an important

thing to do.

And I love the fact that there
are people and committers focused

on this problem, right?

Focused on, because right now it
can take a couple of years to

get your patch accepted, depending
on other priorities and competing

priorities and things like that.

So people need tips and guidance
as to how to navigate that process.

Michael: Nice.

Yeah.

As soon as you mentioned Melanie,
went off in my head that she's

been doing a great job banging
the drum of reviewing other people's

patches, being a big bottleneck
as well.

I guess it's along the same, it's
also helping new people, right?

But yeah, reviewing others patches
is what it feels like a bottleneck

as well at the moment.

Lots like we've got probably in
the last few commit fest, probably

more waiting on the viewer than
in other other states.

So that's yeah.

Great.

Thank you.

Claire: Yeah.

And the second thing that came
to mind is the unconfs I'm

hoping to facilitate at pgconf.dev,
where it's focused on, well,

how do we recognize these non-code
contributions?

And we do it already.

We do it already.

It happens already.

But how can we recognize more of
them, right?

That are harder to see and harder
to measure, you know, with

today's systems.

So I think recognition is really
important, both to incent behavior,

because people like getting recognized,
right?

Don't you?

Michael: I love it.

Claire: And so I think it's something
that we can always do better

on.

Oh, and now the third thing I will
just flag is I always, when

I look at, because I've worked
in different technology spaces,

I'm always wondering what more
can we learn from the Python community,

from the Django community, from
the Kubernetes community.

And so in fact, one of the keynotes
for PostgresFM, an event for Postgres,

is going to be delivered by Sarah
Novotny, who spent a lot of

her years in open source working
on the Kubernetes project.

And so I'm really curious.

I have not seen her slides.

I don't know what she's going to
say.

But I'm really curious to see,
are there things that happen in

the Kubernetes community that we
in Postgres could steal from,

right?

That could benefit our community.

Michael: So.

Wonderful, thanks so much, Claire.

And just as a reminder for people,
when is PostgresFM and how do

they tune in?

Claire: PostgresFM is happening June
11 through 13.

There are four live streams.

Two of them are in America's friendly
time zones.

So like 8 a.m.

Pacific PDT to like 1.30 p.m.

On the Tuesday, the 11th and the
Wednesday, the 12th.

And the other two are in your time
zone.

So and we have Europe friendly
time zones happening on the Wednesday

in Europe and the Thursday in Europe
in the morning.

So we're trying to hit as many
time zones as we could and the

way to tune in is to go to aka.ms
slash post.

event the same way as I treat an
in-person 1.

In an in-person 1, I block my calendar.

But why don't I do the same for
an online 1?

I should do.

Anyway, good reminder.

I'll link up all of these things
in the show notes so people

have got easy access.

Thank you so much for joining me
and us today, Claire.

Thanks so much for everything you
do in the community and see

you soon.

Claire: Thank you.

Appreciate it, Michael.

Ciao, ciao.